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Bohunt Manor public meeting - Chris Taylor (27th Nov 2007 - 06:29:05) A public meeting and exhibition will be at Liphook Millennium Hall 27th November, from 5pm onwards. At 7.30pm, East Hampshire District Council’s senior policy planner, Alistair Spiers, will give a short presentation. Does anyone know what the exhibition is to be about and what the short presentation is for? [editor - seehttp://url.co.uk/v6lj2 Petersfield Post]

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - frankie derry (27th Nov 2007 - 12:38:57) the exhibition is about the proposals for the frontage land at Bohunt Manor. The consultant team will be available to answer questions from 5pm on a one to one basis and take you through the proposals in detail. At 7.30 there's a presentation on the Liphook Development Framework by Alistair Spears of EHDC and the event will close with a question and answer session.

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Gary R (27th Nov 2007 - 21:20:51) http://url.co.uk/xorsy Here is a link to Nash partnerships web page, they seem to have everything planned out pretty well ??? The playing field idea has a distinct carrot like appearence Also how many Liphook residents recieved a letter about the meeting was it just the Porstmouth road ?? [editor - Nash have now removed the information about the Bohunt Manor development from their web site.]

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Nick Hancock (27th Nov 2007 - 21:43:48) Well, I wonder how many others are rushing to post as I type! An interesting meeting this - not just about recreation and sports facilities (and schools), but of course housing too. Time for questions ran out but after the meeting I asked the EHDC planning officer Alastair Spiers about what would happen after the first housing had been built on the Bohunt side of Portsmouth Road. He said that, in time, the settlement boundary would move until development reached Longmoor Road. It's time to consider what sort of village we want. At the moment we have just about managed to preserve a green lung into the village centre, along the Portsmouth and Longmoor Roads. It's what makes Liphook an attractive place to live. Surround the village with housing estates and you've killed it: just another dormitory-ville. Yes, the need for housing may be there, but do we want to put it in the one place that will destroy what's left of the character of the place? Alastair Spiers from EHDC told me that it was views of this sort that needed to be considered as part of the consultation - so stand up and be counted! Nick PS Before anyone else says it I must declare an interest, which is that I live on Longmoor Road and opposite the open fields. But if you do agree, say so!

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Marian Camilleri (27th Nov 2007 - 22:20:00) Interestingly at the meeting tonight they were very careful to say that this was not a plan but a proposal. Apparently this proposal would have to be adopted by the local council as a site which would be good to develop. There was a display which seemed to suggest that Bohunt manor as a site for development scored high on government criteria. One of the criteria was proximity to the railway station which seems a joke as Liphook can't cope with the level of commuter use currently. That apparently I was told has nothing to do with suitability. It's just its proximity which scores high. It also had incorrect information on the location of bus stops which also scored highly as a criteria for adopting this site as one for development over other sites which are currently in the development plan. However, the website seems to tell a different story. It seems that Nash Partnership have done their homework and have identified that Liphook should have greater provision for recreational facilities for the population and have suggested that some of the development could be land offered for the council to buy to use for recreational facilities. (The council apparently have the money they just need someone to provide the land and a developer to help with buildings etc. They also seem to suggest that some of the land could be used for a new school and suggested that the current infant and junior school sites were inadequate. It was interesting that they could not comment on whether the owner of the land would be willing to sell the 10 acres required for the recreation facility without the planning permission for more housing. It appears that the people of Liphook need to decide whether they think the pay off an improved facility which could include better facilities for the local football team (I understand that without these improved facilities our local team are barred from competing at a higher level and are at the mercy of FA rules) is worth the sacrifice of this greenfield site. Call me cynical but isn't this just development via the back door. I also wonder what bonuses are paid to these consultancies for managing to get the "proposals" adopted.

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - liz (28th Nov 2007 - 08:37:23) I'm sure the original owners who sold this land to the WWF with the best intentions must be turning in their graves. The 'proposals' are exactly what they didn't want to happen. Although I suppose that is irrelevant now. Liphook's infrastructure is already struggling to cope with the development of the OSU site but at least that didn't come at the expense of developing on a greenfield site. I really believe that developing this land will destroy the character of Liphook and will put even further pressure on the area for even more 'facilities'. A viscious circle. Liphook must grow of course, but at a sustainable pace and not in huge leaps and bounds. I will,be making sure that I do not vote for anyone at any level who is in favour of the 'proposals' however attractive the initial 'carrot' may appear.

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Niall G (28th Nov 2007 - 08:38:19) I couldn't make the meeting last night, as I'm working away from home and only saw it advertised on this link on Monday. Unfortunately this 'proposal' seems to be going the same way as so many others, ie a 'development application by stealth', going under the banner of 'playing fields', even though they might never transpire! Having looked at the consultant's website it is hardly surprising to see no mention that this is an unadopted proposal, instead the language is continuously of what 'will' be happening - do you ever feel you are having your expectations managed? It is also very disappointing to see the disconnect between the necessary infrastructure, and the proposal from the off - how can this development even be considered unless the train (station) capacity, and bus stops, let alone, schools, medical, social services etc aren't there to support it? And then the fundamental issue - do we concrete over our remaining green belt, and change the character of Liphook for ever? Unsurprisingly the 'proposal' is silent on this point too - but I'm not. I don't think Bohunt is the right place for this development, and I will take every opportunity (that I can get to!) to say so - I hope like minded folk will do the same.

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - liz (28th Nov 2007 - 11:23:02) Apologies - before someone points it out I know the land was left to the WWF not sold. Typed in haste as I was rather shocked to read about the meeting which I knew nothing about until I looked on this website this morning. Niall is absolutely correct - we are having our expectations managed.

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Chris Taylor (28th Nov 2007 - 12:43:30) Well, it was an interesting show but it doesn't take much of an imagination to conclude that the drive here is housing, 2/3rds of the land use initially in fact, the community offerings being thrown in to help smooth the way. Do we really want ANOTHER community building and would helping the Football club appeal to the MAJORITY of local residents? The existing schools have land that could accomodate extra classrooms at a push. Extra perceived traffic is going to add to an already monstrous problem when one considers the other house building that has been given the green light. No-one with any authority in planning seems to get the point that proper, not bodged, traffic surveys are essential even at the proposal stage; increased traffic is obviously not considered an important enough limitation. Liphook centre is in danger of re-inventing itself as the overused and dangerous drive through it once was before the by-pass was installed rather than being an attractive central focal point. The Longmoor road will become an even busier access route to the A3, without the fallback of the green views at the back. The train service to liphook has been downgraded so it is difficult to see how it will cope with even more commuters but, as if to pre-empt and to compensate, our showmen for the night invented a bus route with pretend bus stops to give the impression that the existing transport infrastructure is sound and not creaking at the joints! Appropriate, manageable scale development is essential, no doubt about it, but this is several steps too far and will be the turning point for the rush to introduce even more unfeasibly large schemes. And let's not forget that behind the circus show of community spirited gifting lies the truer purpose of commercial gain. We will see yet another band of opportunist commercial speculators breezing by and spawning the legacy of another housing estate which we, as Liphook residents, will have to cope with and look at for ever. And how long will it be before the designated green spaces in the scheme will be swallowed up for yet more building? I'll oppose this with all the vigour I can muster!

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Louise B (28th Nov 2007 - 16:21:07) It's not often that all the posters on a thread agree on an important issue, but a general trend seems to be emerging here and this view is also supported by many others I have spoken to in the village today. So, developers, planners, EHDC, local councillors, our MP, and any others who have an influence in the decision making processes, take careful note. This is not just a typical, apathetic Hampshire village, this is a concerned and spirited community, alarmed by the threat of losing its identity and determined to do whatever it takes to preserve the village atmosphere so fundamentally important to our chosen way of life. This is not just a blob on a Government department's planning map, this is our home. The lack of local infrastructure to support more people here is a huge issue, but in my view it is secondary. If theoretically, there were actually enough school places, public transport, doctors, roads, etc, most people would still passionately not want housing to be built on any of our currently green spaces. Concreting over any open spaces in a village will destroy for ever the much valued rural feel of the area and inevitably make it a greyer, less individualistic place. An increase in population would also set in motion small but important break-downs in the fabric of village community life. We have witnessed this happening here in small insidious ways over the last 50 years. More people = more stress. Everyone knows the UK needs more housing, but even those who live in towns and cities do not want to see our precious villages and rural landscapes spoilt to provide this. With apologies to those involved in the very worthwhile pursuit of providing football and sporting opportunities for our children, this issue has just been dredged up by the developers to help convince us to accept their scheme, so they can make lots of money. They have no interest in our children's welfare, it's just a bribe, and a cheap one at that. Don't be tempted by their poisoned lollipops. In fact, this issue will be a test, not just of the people of Liphook standing strong against the over-development of our village, but a test of the nature of society itself. It will prove whether there is such a thing as local democracy or whether we do in fact live in an Orwellian state where people have no real say in their own lives. Think about things such as hospital and school closures, major road building, house building, supermarket construction, transport. Ask yourself, do you feel you have any say in what happens? If power is still in the hands of the people, as politicians like to declare, then it seems, based on opinions aired so far, that there is no way this development can go ahead. Conversely, if as many of us fear, the Establishment only allow the plebs to have their way when it doesn't involve a loss of profit for the powerful, then we are on a terrifyingly slippery slope.

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - karen feeney (28th Nov 2007 - 16:42:31) I 'popped' in to see the exhibition last night and my husband attended the presentation and questions and answers session later in the evening. Whilst I was there I definitely got the impression that we were trying to be 'persuaded' that our existing junior and infant schools were 'in need of modernising' and that the position of them in the village (ie in the middle of housing) was becoming more and more of a problem. Totally agree that the journey to and from school is difficult, but can't imagine how by moving the school we will see any difference to the traffic in the village. We will still have the same number of cars all trying to get to the same place at the same time, and if they think the Portsmouth Road is any safer or easier to access then they are very much mistaken. Is this a case of NIMBY'ism ? Yes it definitely is, but it's more of a NOTLATRFMH (not on the land across the road from my house - thanks) How can anyone consider building on this area, the sunsets and views across the fields are, on some occasions, breathtaking, and as has already been written, it is one of the areas within the village that still gives Liphook a little character and soul. Liphook does not need any more houses, or new schools it has pretty much outgrown itself already. Let's hope that our views and feelings, as a community, are listened to in this instance. Karen F

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Sue W (28th Nov 2007 - 20:25:36) There have been very forceful and careful posts from concerned villagers and rightly so. I can’t help the feeling that no matter what, those that make the final decisions have already decided. We have our very own Parish Council, voting to accept the new report that EXCLUDES us from the South Downs Trust. This would have given so much more clout to reject the plans, and I am surprised that they are airing their plans before the final decision is made. The same council (according to the herald) have already agreed to the proposals for the playing fields etc, which must come at the exchange of housing, but are careful, not to mention. It would seem that those attending the meeting also drew a blank on the amount of housing - that in its self should ring alarm bells with many. The presentation so I understand was 'backed' by someone from EHDC. Who in authority/power is actually AGAINST this? Mr Cox, works very closely with councils and would not, set this in motion now if the vibes he has been getting was negative. The go ahead of the tunnel, has changed everything about Liphook and because of our situation and train link are set for a hell of a lot more of the same. I hope public opinion will be strong enough, but I do feel that there will be a portion that would welcome it, a portion who couldn't give a damn, and the others that sit on the fence. Perhaps those are the Majority? Who Knows?

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - liz (29th Nov 2007 - 12:50:15) I've just been having a look at the 'proposal' and comparing it with a map/satellite view of Liphook. The proposed housing estate is HUGE. I can't remember the size of the OSU site but this seems much bigger. Should this go ahead it would, as several people have mentioned, completely change the character of Liphook and not for the better. It seems not many people in the area are aware of the 'proposals' and hardly anyone seemed to know about the meeting. Perhaps there will be something in the Liphook Herald today. (Well you never know!) Better spread the word that Liphook is under threat! -And we are up against people who have already appear to have made a massive investment and are willing to pay huge sums to court public opinion. They will not back down easily and don't take any criticism lightly. I know this all sounds a bit melodramatic - but just imagine how awful it will be if the bulldozers actually move in. [editor - the two areas appear to be about the same - first pic is of the OSU, second is the area designated at Bohunt Manor.]

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Chris Taylor (29th Nov 2007 - 14:08:14) Anyone know exactly how many houses will be built? I didn't hear an exact figure but then gasps of horror are not good news at a lovely project/scheme launch ceremony.

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - liz (29th Nov 2007 - 14:34:32) I wouldn't be surprised if those in favour of the proposed Bohunt housing and industrial development are the same sort of people who thought the Sainsbury's OSU development wouldn't bring traffic problems to Liphook or put significant strain on the infrastructure. They see themselves as forward thinkers when in fact they are just the opposite. Even Sainsbury's own figures at the time showed a massive increase in traffic but it seems nobody could be bothered to look at them properly and were just guided by what they are 'fed'. I also wonder how many of those in favour of the proposed new development actually live in the village itself.

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Rhys G (29th Nov 2007 - 17:15:22) It is ridiculous to allow any sort of development on this land. Our green space is disappearing – fast. We have already lost the King George site. Having a quick trail through East Hants website I found this. A few of the items may apply to the Bohunt Manor site. Historic Garden? Local landscape feature? Ancient track?. A wide shot! Protecting the countryside Take a look at a Liphook map. The trouble is reports go out of date so quickly, so I just hope this is the latest one. I am struggling to find an LDF (Local Development Framework) for the Liphook area on the internet, it may need a visit to Penns Place! Also loads of other Villages in East Hants have a VDS (Village Development Statements) or VP (Village Plans), but I can’t find ours! Does someone know if one exists for Liphook? Also, how about some free help from the RTPI’s Planning aid if they do take any “ideas” further. And a look at Planning Portal.

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Steve Read (29th Nov 2007 - 18:42:42) Interestingly enough this proposal of moving the football pitch etc was on the table around five or six years ago, to the very site now mentioned. Nothing was ever stipulated regarding full scale development, but with a view to realease the Recreation Ground for housing development. Does anybody know what would happen to the Rec if this development got through, would we end up with two lots of major housing, or still retain the Rec ?

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Simon Coyte (29th Nov 2007 - 22:35:38) Steve The rec is owned by the Parish and as such the parish council are trustees of the ground and manage it on behalf of you and me the parishoners. To sell off the rec would require quite a lengthy process and involve public meetings and the charity commissioners. There is no reason why if the parish needs more sports fields then the agricultural land at bohunt for that is what it is at present could not be compulserily purchased by the council (or EHDC) to provide this identified need. I would ask the Question would more houses make liphook more viable? Postings on other threads suggest our shops are not being supported would more residents shop in liphook or go outside?

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - annie weht (17th Dec 2007 - 21:14:20) I too knew nothing of this meeting and I am dismayed at the thought of yet more open land being nibbled away from the fringes of the village. IF this were to go ahead, would the dwellings be affordable as surely this must be an exception site with no justification for development in the normal run of things, unless it is needed (and a proven need at that) for affordable housing. Also, are there plans afoot for developing other sites around the village? I seem to remember that there was talk a while ago about extending the settlement boundary to include land in Chiltley Lane/Highfield Lane? Let's hope this does not happen either as then there would be little to protect the still farmed fields up to the county boundary - a truly dismal prospect.

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Darren Ellis (20th Dec 2007 - 09:12:39) All, Having lived in Liphook for over 40 years I have seen some changes in "The Village" as we call it, some good, some not so. Liphook is in the heart of Southern England, an hour or so by train to London, the same to the two major airports by car and surrounded by National Trust and Army land and 30 minutes to the coast. It has a great community spirit and many, many local well run organisations, clubs and schools. No wonder we all love it so much! But here lies the problem, so does everyone else, lots of people would love to live in a place like Liphook and developers know it too. Bohunt Manor has done very well to stay undeveloped for so long, possibly something to do with being owned by WWF. It appears to me that this finger of land into the heart of the village is destined to be developed at some point now it is in "Private" hands. Liphook parish council, unfortunately, cannot say yes or no, only EHDC have that job and even then Whitehall will have the final say (anyone remember "Lloyds" at the King George's site?, We all wanted that one!) I believe Liphook's only option is to fight for some benefit for "The Village" on this land. Houses will be built but if you feel a need for football pitches, new schools, community facilities, business units, new roads.... the list goes on... then the fight must start now. I for one will miss the views, the sunset over Weavers whilst walking to The Links :-) but life goes on and things change. Some may see this as a defeatist attitude, myself, I see it as a realists attitude but then what do I know? Just my opinion! Happy Christmas to you all and start lobbying in 2008! Darren.

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - liz (20th Dec 2007 - 09:44:21) Your're right Darren, you do have a defeatist attitude - and your map reading skills are a bit suspect too! The Bohunt Site is not a 'finger of land into the heart of the village' - it adjoins the village but is very much on the edge. The developers seem to have done an excellent job already in changing expectations - from no real expectation that the land would be built on to a "What's in it for me/us?" point of view. This is a greenfield site and we should do our best to keep it that way otherwise, as several other posters have said, we will start to lose the reason for living here in the first place. The key element that seems to have everyone dribbling (excuse the pun) in expectation is a new football pitch. Now that would be nice but surely not at the expense of spoiling the whole fabric/atmosphere of the 'village'. There are other options. Here's to an interesting debate Merry Xmas!

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Niall G (20th Dec 2007 - 13:55:22) Darren, Thanks for your comments, you clearly speak from experience, and I agree your approach does seem overly defeatist; good job we didn't all have this approach last time the UK faced a major threat, or Liphook would have more than some pleasant MOD land surrounding it, more likely you would be typing your message in German, if you had permission to type it at all... Rant over, Merry Christmas!

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Steve Read (20th Dec 2007 - 17:55:08) Well done Darren. You now can now join the club along with a few others of us on here. Express an opinion on your take of things and straight away get slated and accused of being a surrender monkey. Pathetic really, your better off to let them all get on with it. By the way agreed with what you said.

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - liz (21st Dec 2007 - 08:26:34) I'm sure Darren realises that if you express an opinion publicly there is a very good chance that some people will disagree with you!

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Chris Taylor (21st Dec 2007 - 11:41:04) There are strong arguments for and against a lot of controversial activity in Liphook, including building programs and we all, apparently, have a right to choose which side of the fence to stand; better to do that than sit on it and do nothing.

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Steve Read (21st Dec 2007 - 16:06:42) Couldn't agree more liz, but because Darren clearly states that this is his opinion does this warrant an association or attack with reference to the War from Niall G. Step back and look how heated this is getting already and its only a proposal for building, not a threat to National Security, or a question of moral fibre. To make a comparison of a proposed development and the threat of war or invasion and the consequent reaction of individuals is pathetic in the extreme. If Niall G feels in his own mind that he is going to war over this proposal then let him carry on, build a tree hut, strap himself to a digger bucket, dig some tunnels and various other brave and couragous missions he sees fit, but don't attempt to compare a building site with the real thing and how he relates to other opinions on here.

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Niall G (26th Dec 2007 - 10:11:17) Steve, Festive cheer obviously hasn't reached your end of Liphook ;). Yes, I did use an exaggerated metaphor to emphasise the risk of 'rolling over' and accepting unchecked development. This is still a defeatist attitude (as the poster himself admits) irrespective of the level or type of threat. If allusion to the war offends you, for whatever reason, I apologise. Although I do think some things are worth fighting for, and judging by the great majority of postings on this thread preservation of the character of Liphook is one of them. I'm not interested in this thread becoming one of those long 'he said, she said' arguments, let's keep it to the subject in hand - as some 'heat' has now been generated; although you might want to check just how temperate your own comments were.

Re: Bohunt Manor public meeting - Gordon Hugh West (3rd Jan 2008 - 16:37:09) I can only find one reference to the most important issue regarding land use. Agriculture, the primary source of food production, which Simon Coyte referred to on 27th November 2007 and I quote: “There is no reason why if the parish needs more sports fields then the agricultural land at Bohunt for that is what it is at present could not be compulsorily purchased by the council (or EHDC) to provide this identified need” Statistics taken from the DEFRA website today are as follows: “The UK is currently 58.1 per cent self-sufficient. Since 1995 self-sufficiency in all food has decreased by 21.2 per cent or15.6 percentage points.” If we do not alter our ways then in 10 years time we will be down to about 40 per cent self-sufficient When Gerald Brennan moved to Spain in the 1920’s, the village he lived in judged a man to be poor if he did not own enough land to support his family. We as a Nation are rapidly putting ourselves into a situation where we will become totally reliant on other countries to grow our food for us! We will become the poor man of the world. Our planning needs to be turned on its head. We need to think in terms of how many people the land can provide with food and only then allocate land for development. But not only allocate what land but also an outline of how it should be developed. An example is Sainsbury’s. As the ground slopes down towards the Midhurst Road, why not an underground car park beneath the store and flats above? Providing more homes and less tarmac. Too late now for that site unfortunately. So if the people of Liphook want to save this area then fight for it and any other farmland to be retained as farmland

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